: Well Peter had a successful world championship match.
didn't lose the match.. i consider that successful. he played a
heroic game 8
guest3017(U) tells you: well, I think from the Champion's point of view
the Champion is successful if he holds his title, which he did
Hangin : well kramnik had a successful match
guest3017(U) tells you: Kramnik retained his title, so a successful
one for Leko would only be one in which Leko won the match
but Leko came out stronger ..
out his match with Kramnik, as a stronger player..
Leko won Corus. that tells me Leko .. had a successful world champ
match.. maybe more successful than Kramnik. Leko appears to be the
stronger player now.
tells you: I don't think the match was successful for Leko.
Well contested, heroic, all of that, yes.
time you draw the champ in a match.. as a challenger I consider that
tells you: it's not so much opinion as fact.
A challenger doesn't challenge so that he can draw a match.
He tries to win, otherwise he wouldn't be the challenger.
The champion, by virtue of his status, needs only a draw to retain
his title. The measure of
success, objectively, is by who has the title at the end of the day.
Hangin : .. i
simply think as a first time challenger to the world champion.. if you
show him you are his equal.. by drawing the match.. i consider that a
successful match for both players.. slightly more so for the challenger
guest3017(U) tells you: more so for the challenger?
, Wow that makes no sense
the champs supposed to be the best.. the tied match shows he's not
tells you: the champ needs merely to show that nobody is better than him.
the challenger has the burden of proof on his shoulders.
: that's your champ.. my champs are different
: challenger has to take the game to a higher level
. like Lasker had to bring the game higher than Steinitz, Capa had
to bring it higher than Lasker.
the challenger met the burden.. that's says. hey i am as good as you are
.. and you are the champ
tells you: no, no, if that were the case we'd transfer the title to the
challenger on a draw
right.. hey .. the challenger has to win the match.. to be champ.. no
it also depends.. how the challenger responds ..after the tied after the
tie. Leko has gotten stronger. He won Corus.
tells you: well yes. Leko has
been more impressive after. but you mean if Leko wins the title and let's
say Kramnik later on challenges him to a rematch and they draw ... you
think Kramnik will be slightly more successful than Leko?
: as an ex world champ.. you want to regain your title. But for a first
time challenger to the title. I think a tie can been seen as a partial
victory. You have shown to be the champions equal.
you: okay, but as a challenger like Leko, who has been dreaming of being
WC ever since he was a kid ... you also want to win the title as a
Hangin : absolutely .. but Leko has only gotten stronger,
he's more determined.. he said as much after the match
tells you: yes. Leko seems to be getting stronger
all i am saying.. is that there has to be some level of success.. by
drawing the champion. Some players get weaker after a failed world
championship match. Nigel short for one, he lost to Kasparov back in 1993.
He got weaker. He lost his desire for chess.
tells you: but the champion holds the higher degree of success I would
think. He's defending his
belt and does so
the point being is.. for the challenger is, i didn't lose to
champion.. i was his was equal. In fact, I think kramnik should be a
little disappointed that he didn't show his dominance
tells you: if Leko goes on to win the title, they might ask him his
impressions of the match (that he wins) and he'll say something like:
"THIS time I was successful because ...yaddayaddayadda "
guest3017(U) tells you: in other words, I doubt that he thinks he was
successful against Kramnik in their match.
Not that he wasn't somewhat successful, which he was ... but I
doubt he'd describe it as a successful match, especially given what
him at the last game
! i am sure he is disappointed.. but not completely
no. But I think Kramnik feels
satisfied with the result of that match.
He had a big scare but he is satisfied. so I would say he probably
feels more successful than Leko about it
:kramnik is lazy, kramnik is an
artist.. not your typical world champ.. he's not even the best
player any longer\.
tells you: this is more of a personal thing than an objective one for you.
I mean, I prefer Leko to Kramnik too, but your stance is not an
objective one regarding the outcome of the match
: am completely objective about the match out come.. as a challenger
if you draw the champion.. i think you can consider your result a
successful one. maybe not a total successful.. but still you proved to be
the champs equal. also I think chess needs a new hero.. I want Leko to be
tells you: you are not objective at all ... as evidenced by your strong
dislike of Kramnik and your comment that in a rematch, if Leko were
champion and Kramnik challenger, that you think Kramnik would NOT be
successful by drawing the match under those circumstances
I don't dislike kramnik at all
tells you: well you certainly have some problems with him
he's the champion.. I am one of the few chess people who acknowledge his
great achievement by defeating Kasparov
tells you: "lazy" "gotten weaker," etc all of
which is true
well, I call them as I see them
I an completely objective about kramnik
tells you: but your position on the world championship match -- I don't
know of one person who shares that opinion
well.. there are plenty who don't even think kramnik is champ
tells you: but most of them still wouldn't call the match more successful
for Leko than for Kramnik
I do.. i am a man who beat the man who beat the man guy
guest3017(U) tells you: anyway, so you're rooting for Leko to win Linares?
i think chess needs a new hero.. Leko been labeled the draw master..
I hope his world champ experience.. made him stronger.. and his
play is on a high level. it showed at Corus.. i want it to show here
(Linares).. as well.. I want chess to have another new hero.. so i want
Leko to continue his progress
tells you: I still like Anand the best though
i like Anand .. but he's rejected many .. too many world champ
tells you: I'm rooting for him
tells you: yes
tells you: but he still has a shot left in him
tells you: hopefully
good.. I am rooting for Anand to have a great tourney.. just like I am
rooting for Leko, Kasparov.