Hangin has an interesting discussion on ICC

7/4/2005 - I think about chess like I do any other sport. I love debating the question of who is the best baseball player of all time. Is it Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Willy Mays or Barry Bonds? You can debate similar questions about chess. Here is an interesting discussion I had with a guest on ICC on who was better. Now don't give Hangin a hard time about the spelling or grammar, because hangin spent the entire July 4th weekend watching Muhammad Ali fights on ESPN Classic. So I picked up a few pointers. So watch out.

(told guest5213)

guest5213(U) tells you: welcome

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Marcozy was better than Schleicher.

Xtell guest5213! Agreed

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Fine was better than Marshall

Xtell guest5213! Ok. Agreed

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Rubinstein was better than Bogoljubow

Xtell guest5213! Yes

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Lasker was better than Pillsbury

Xtell guest5213! Agreed

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Pillsbury was better than Chigorin

Xtell guest5213! Agreed

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Geller was better than Najdorf

Guest5213 (U) tells you: I said Geller was greater than Najdorf

Xtell guest5213! Agreed

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Bernstein was better than Teichmann

Xtell guest5213! Ossip?

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: yes

Guest5213 (U) tells you: not Jacob of course

Xtell guest5213! Not sure.

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! Maybe

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Capablanca was greater than Alekhine, even though he lost to him in their match

Xtell guest5213! Agreed

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Bronstein was greater than Larsen

Xtell guest5213! U thinks so?

(Told guest5213) Larsen was better

Xtell guest5213! Maybe

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! Bronstein did play Botvinnik for the world champ

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Steinitz was greater than Morphy

Xtell guest5213! Not sure about that

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: do you disagree with it?

Guest5213 (U) tells you: or just not sure?

Xtell guest5213! Well Morphy career was short

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! Based on career length I say it's true

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: yes.  Morphy's career was short too

Xtell guest5213! Thatís whom I am talking about

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! Morphy career was short

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! What two years

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: yes, but I mean Steinitz' play at his peak was greater than Morphy's play at his peak

Xtell guest5213! I disagree, U thinks so?

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: I think so

Guest5213 (U) tells you: anyway, let's move on

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Stein was greater than Timman

Xtell guest5213! I disagree

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: aha!

Guest5213 (U) tells you: you've disagreed!

Xtell guest5213! I do \

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: you think Timman accomplished more in his chess career than Stein in his?

Xtell guest5213! Well Stein died young

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! what he died at 40

(told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! Stein never qualified for a world championship

(told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! Karpov says he had limit opening

(told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! I think Timman did more .. Than Stein

(Told guest5213, who has been idle for 2 minutes)?

Guest5213 (U) tells you: hmm

Guest5213 (U) tells you: let me check into that

Xtell guest5213! Stein won a few USSR championships

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: look at all the World Champs that Stein beat

Xtell guest5213! He didnít beat Fischer or Karpov

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! He also never did well at the interzonals

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: no, but he did beat Smyslov, Tal, Petrosian, Spassky...

Guest5213 (U) tells you: and I would argue that the USSR championships he won were more difficult to win than any tournament Timman won

Xtell guest5213! Timman did play Karpov for a fide world champ in 1993

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: yes but that wasn't exactly the world championship anymore

Guest5213 (U) tells you: and anyway he was beaten pretty badly

Xtell guest5213! True. But at least he got into it. Made the final candidate match

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! But he has beaten Karpov. And Stein never did

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! Not sure about Timman record against Spassky, Tal, Petrosian, Smyslov. But I bet he beat a few of them

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: well, he had a negative record vs. Spassky

Guest5213 (U) tells you: a negative record vs. Tal

Xtell guest5213! Well did he beat them or not?

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: never beat Petrosian, but lost twice to him

Guest5213 (U) tells you: he beat Tal and Spassky but had negative records against both of them

Xtell guest5213! Well no crime there. What was Stein record against those players?

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: had a negative record against Smyslov

Guest5213 (U) tells you: and of course a heavily negative record against Karpov and Kasparov

Guest5213 (U) tells you: ok, let me check Stein

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Stein had an equal record with Smyslov ... +1 - 1 with a many draws...

Xtell guest5213! Lets also recall. Timman was a young man when playing those stars

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: yes, but Stein was always a young man

Xtell guest5213! Well he was 40 when he died. In what 1973

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: right, but I mean many of his games were also as a young man

Xtell guest5213! So. He was near age of Spassky, Tal, Petrosian

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! Timman was close in age to Karpov

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: nothing wrong with being a young man

Guest5213 (U) tells you: anyway, let's keep checking the record

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Timman has negative record against all the World Champs

Xtell guest5213! Yes. But his chess abilities were stilled developing

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Stein has = score against Smyslov

Xtell guest5213! No crime there

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: +2 against Tal with no losses

Xtell guest5213! Ok. Well

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: let me check Petrosian

Xtell guest5213! When did they play? When Tal was sick

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: they played many games

Guest5213 (U) tells you: let me check all their games

Xtell guest5213! Stein never qualified for a world championship process

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: he beat Tal in 66 and in 71

Xtell guest5213! Oh ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: they played 13 games overall

Guest5213 (U) tells you: and he never lost

Guest5213 (U) tells you: ok, now to Petrosian

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Stein was +1 against Petrosian with no losses

Guest5213 (U) tells you: in eight games

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Spassky

Guest5213 (U) tells you:

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Stein was +3 against Spassky with no losses (!!) out of 11 games

Xtell guest5213! Interesting

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: against Karpov he was -2 with no wins out of 5

Guest5213 (U) tells you: and of course against Fischer he lost once and drew once

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: but against all the other world champs he had a + score, except Smyslov whom he had an equal score against

Guest5213 (U) tells you: pretty impressive

Xtell guest5213! Yes. Hey he was an excellent player. But so was Timman

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: yes, but it seems to me Tim manís specialty was more in beating the weaker players, but not as strong against the very best

Xtell guest5213! Who had a higher rating rank?

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: I don't know ... I don't think there were really ratings for most of Stein's life

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Timman and Stein only played one game against each other, with Timman as White, and it ended in a boring 16 move draw

Xtell guest5213! Oh ok.

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! But Timman was young when they played

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: in terms of world rank they both reached #3 in the world

Guest5213 (U) tells you: no higher for either of them

Guest5213 (U) tells you: according to Somas, anyway

Xtell guest5213! Oh stein was #3

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! When?

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! I thought Timman was up there

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: yes, from 1966-67

Xtell guest5213! Oh. What about Timman?

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Timman was #3 a lot...

Xtell guest5213! A lot longer?

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: well, for 13 months overall

Guest5213 (U) tells you: but over a span of 5 years

Guest5213 (U) tells you: between 1984-1989

Xtell guest5213! Who stayed in the top 10 longer

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: whereas Stein was #3 for half a year between 66 and 67, according to Sonas

Guest5213 (U) tells you: hmm

Guest5213 (U) tells you: let me check

Xtell guest5213! Who is Sonas?

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: a statistician

Guest5213 (U) tells you: you don't ever read his articles on chessbase?

Xtell guest5213! Where is u getting these stats? Is there a web site?

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! I do. Yes.

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! Oh ok.

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: yes, there's a site: www.chessmetrics.com

Guest5213 (U) tells you: well, it seems that Timman was in the top ten at various times from 1978-1992

Xtell guest5213! I will have to check this sit out more

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Stein was in the top ten from 64 all the way through his death in 73

Guest5213 (U) tells you: yes, it's a cool site

Xtell guest5213! Oh ok

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! What about Timman

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Timman was in the top ten from 78-92, but with some breaks

Guest5213 (U) tells you: a very long time span, no doubt

Xtell guest5213! I kind of give Timman the edge. because of the candidate experience

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Stein's peak rating, according to Sonas' system, was 2759

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Timman's was slightly higher

Xtell guest5213! Oh it was

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: according to Sonas, Timman's peak rating was 2768

Guest5213 (U) tells you: so Sonas gives Timman the edge on peaks...

Xtell guest5213! Oh ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Timman's best individual performance rating was 2809 (!!) in the Rotterdam World Cup, 1989

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: which trumps Stein's best individual performance of 2767 in Moscow, 67

Guest5213 (U) tells you: so yeah, I guess Timman has to get the edge

Guest5213 (U) tells you: despite Stein's impressive record vs. the world champs

Xtell guest5213! Ok. But stein. Seem to falter in the interzonals

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: yeah

Xtell guest5213! Timman won an interzonal

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: it's a shame he died young though, as he was still at the top of his game

Xtell guest5213! Had had a impressive match record

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! Hey stein was a great player

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! They were in different eras. Even thought they overlapped

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: yes

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Sonas ranks Lasker as greater than Capablanca overall, even though Capa beat Lasker

Xtell guest5213! Well Lasker had a great 25 year period

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: but he even ranks Laserís peak rating as higher than Casablancaís peak

Xtell guest5213! Capa was a bit lazy

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: and his best individual performance was higher than Capaís...

Guest5213 (U) tells you: although I don't know.

Xtell guest5213! Also capa beat old man Lasker

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: yeah

Guest5213 (U) tells you: in Havana

Xtell guest5213! In fact. Lasker gave his title to Capablanca. Before the match and insisted that he Lasker be called the challenger

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: right

Guest5213 (U) tells you: well he tried to give his title before the match but Capa refused

Xtell guest5213! Capa wanted an official transfer of power that only a match can bring

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: I'm going to say Keres was greater than Reshevsky

Guest5213 (U) tells you: agree?

Xtell guest5213! Agreed

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: hmm, between Bronstein and Keres...?

Xtell guest5213! Keres

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: I'm going to go with Bronstein

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: let's take a look

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! Keres beat all the world champs from capa to Fischer.

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! He might have taken Karpov too. But not sure

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: no, he never beat Karpov

Guest5213 (U) tells you: ok, here's the thing

Xtell guest5213! Bronstein did challenge Botvinnik for the world champ

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: head to head Bronstein beats Keres 5-3, with 17 draws

Xtell guest5213! Oh ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: let's take a look at what Sonas has to say

Guest5213 (U) tells you: because head to head isn't everything

Xtell guest5213! Right

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: ok, Keres' highest rating is 2786, in March 1947

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Bronstein's is 2792 in June 1951

Guest5213 (U) tells you: according to Sonas

Guest5213 (U) tells you: close call...

Xtell guest5213! No doubt it's a close call

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Bronstein's best individual performance was in Gothenburg Interzonal, 1955, with a 2813 performance rating

Xtell guest5213! Oh ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Keres is slightly higher on this one...

Guest5213 (U) tells you: with 2836 performance rating for Bled/Zagreb/Belgrade Candidates, 1959

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: but Bronstein had three 2800+ performances to Keres' two

Guest5213 (U) tells you: hmm

Guest5213 (U) tells you: well, we can say it's too close to call

Xtell guest5213! I think so.

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! Itís a tough call

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: ok, let's take a look at records vs. the world champs they both played

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Bronstein was -1 against Botvinnik out of 30 games

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! They drew their world champ match

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: right

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Keres was -4 out of 19 games against Botvinnik

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Bronstein was -2 vs. Smyslov out of 30 games...

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Keres was equal with Smyslov out of 40

Guest5213 (U) tells you: wow ... ok, so far score one for Bronstein one for Keres.  On to Tal

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Keres was +3 against Tal out of 22 games

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Bronstein was -4.... aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Xtell guest5213! Oh. Had a thought time against Tal

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: it was actually -6 but I was not counting their simultaneous match against each other where they played eight games simultaneously

Guest5213 (U) tells you: otherwise it's +6 in favor of Tal!

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Petrosian was +4 against Bronstein and = with Keres at three wins a piece

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Spassky was +2 over Keres and +4 over Bronstein...

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: yeah, we can say that Keres' record vs. the world champs was better, especially if we consider that he also played (and beat) Capablanca, Alekhine, and Euwe

Xtell guest5213! Right

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: all right, Keres gets the edge, just barely

Xtell guest5213! Ok.

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: between Keres and Kortchnoi?

Xtell guest5213! I gonna say Kortchnoi

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: hmm

Guest5213 (U) tells you: do you know their record head to head?

Guest5213 (U) tells you: it's interesting...

Xtell guest5213! Kortchnoi all those world champ matches. 3 against Karpov. Plus against kaspy in semifinal match

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! No i donít

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! I think Keres gave Kortchnoi a hard time. I think

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: well, I'm not disputing your choice ... I would probably also choose Kortchnoi, but...

Guest5213 (U) tells you: +4 for Keres, with no losses and nine draws

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! Kortchnoi owed Tal. 13 win 3 losses. And a bunch of draws

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: but according to Sonas, Kortchnoi reached #1 in the world ranking, whereas Keres' highest ranking was #2

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Kortchnoi was #1 in the world in 1965...

Xtell guest5213! Really I didnít any that

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: well, according to Sonas.  Kortchnoi was #1 and you know who was #2 then?  Hint:  not Spassky or Fischer

Xtell guest5213! Fischer

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! Really whoa. Petrosian

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: nope

Guest5213 (U) tells you: not Petrosian either

Xtell guest5213! Keres

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: ok, Spassky was #3; Fischer was #4, Petrosian #5

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Keres was as far down as #10 at that time

Xtell guest5213! Oh. Tal?

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! Larsen?

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: you guessed it :)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: the great Mishap Tal

Xtell guest5213! Tal was great

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! He had a great run in Montrťal in 1979. Tied for first with Karpov. I think that was the toughest tourney ever

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: vying with Kortchnoi for #1 in the world at that time, but Sonas gives it barely to Kortchnoi for five or six months in 1965

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Montreal 1979 the toughest tourney ever?

Guest5213 (U) tells you: hmm, let's see what Sonas has to say

Xtell guest5213! Well ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: not that Sonas is god or anything

Guest5213 (U) tells you: he could be mistaken, of course

Xtell guest5213! Hey itís a good site.

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! Interesting. I need to check it out

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: he put tons of work into it

Guest5213 (U) tells you: he's certainly the authority on chess statistics, regardless of whether or not we agree with him

Xtell guest5213! He did

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! Right

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: hmm

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Montreal 79.

Guest5213 (U) tells you: according to Sonas, anyway

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: was just the 79th strongest tourney of all time

Guest5213 (U) tells you: still very strong, no doubt

Guest5213 (U) tells you: but Sonas ranks it 79

Xtell guest5213! Oh. Really

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: oh, my bad

Guest5213 (U) tells you: 74

Guest5213 (U) tells you: not 79

Guest5213 (U) tells you: but still down theyíre among the greatest ever

Guest5213 (U) tells you: the main reason for that is it was missing the #2 and #3 players in the world

Xtell guest5213! Oh ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: strongest tournament of all time was a tie between Linares 93 and ... get this Vienna 1882!!

Guest5213 (U) tells you: with 9 of the top ten players participating

Xtell guest5213! Wow 1882

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! How does Corus 2005 stack up?

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: hmm, unfortunately his tournament analysis only goes through 2004

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: guess who had the strongest tournament performance rating of all time?

Xtell guest5213! Karpov?

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: excellent.  You know for which event?

Xtell guest5213! `994 lineages

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: right

Guest5213 (U) tells you: second best tournament performance of all time?

Xtell guest5213! Fischer

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Kasparov

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: for Tilburg, 89

Xtell guest5213! Oh ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: third best for.... the great, the great Emanuel Lasker!

Xtell guest5213! Ok. 1914?

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: London 1899

Xtell guest5213! Oh ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: no, Petersburg 1914 ranks as #18 of all time

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: it goes Karpov, Kasparov, Lasker, Kasparov (again), and then Tal for the Candidates tournament of 1959, followed by Alekhine for San Reno '30, Kasparov again, and then Alekhine again for Bled 31, followed by more and more Kasparov's

Xtell guest5213! Right. Kaspy has a great tourney record

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Fischer is only #23 when it comes to best all time tournament performance

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: but he does have, of course, the best match performance of all time

Xtell guest5213! Was that his blitz tourney?

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: 6-0 vs. Larsen

Guest5213 (U) tells you: no, I don't think Sonas counts the blitz tourneys

Xtell guest5213! Right. Even hydra. Didnít do that

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! Fischer did it twice

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Fischer's #23 all-time tournament performance was for Palma de Mallorca, 1970

Xtell guest5213! Right interzonal

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: yep

Guest5213 (U) tells you: strongest match of all time?

Xtell guest5213! Kasyanov vs. Karpov

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: yes, Kasparov-Karpov V

Guest5213 (U) tells you: second strongest of all time?

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Kasparov-Karpov III

Xtell guest5213! More kaspy vs. Karpov

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: third strongest?

Xtell guest5213! kk

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: KK IV

Guest5213 (U) tells you: fourth strongest?

Guest5213 (U) tells you: KK1

Xtell guest5213! Another kaspy Karpov

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: and fifth strongest?

Guest5213 (U) tells you: KKII

Xtell guest5213! Right

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: followed by, finally...

Guest5213 (U) tells you: sixth strongest...

Guest5213 (U) tells you: another KK!

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Karpov-Kortchnoi

Xtell guest5213! Oh ok

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! Where does Alekhine capa fall?

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: and seventh strongest, also Karpov Kortchnoi

Guest5213 (U) tells you: and eighth strongest also Karpov Kortchnoi!

Guest5213 (U) tells you: ok, Alekhine Capa...

Guest5213 (U) tells you: that's #9

Guest5213 (U) tells you: so right after the eight consecutive KK matches

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: so we can say Karpov participated in the eight strongest matches of all time

Guest5213 (U) tells you: amazing

Xtell guest5213! It is

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! Where is kaspy vs. Anand?

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: #16

Xtell guest5213! What about kaspy vs. kramnik

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: #15

Guest5213 (U) tells you: those primarily because Kramnik was ranked #3 in the world at the time he beat Kasparov, strangely

Xtell guest5213! Where is Fischer Spassky?

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: and Anand was #3 in the world when he played Kasparov

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: so it wasn't #1 vs. #2, hence the lower rankings

Xtell guest5213! Right

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: ouch

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Fischer-Spassky...

Guest5213 (U) tells you: you won't believe this

Xtell guest5213! Spassky was in decline

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Spassky, according to Sonas, was only #7 in the world at that time

Guest5213 (U) tells you: in 72

Xtell guest5213! Right

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: so it was 79 of all time

Xtell guest5213! Oh ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: just behind matches I've never even heard have ... in 78th place it's ... got this...

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Hirschfeld vs. Suhle, Berlin 1865

Guest5213 (U) tells you: loll

Xtell guest5213! Not up on that one

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: he

Guest5213 (U) tells you: interesting though...

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Suhle won the match so convincingly...

Xtell guest5213! I got to check out this metrics site more often.

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! Sonas got some really good stuff on it

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: it's one of my favorite chess sites

Xtell guest5213! Sounds like a great site

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: get this, though.  Suhle won the match so convincingly with 8.0/9, no losses, that he was given a 2772 rating for that match and the 91st best all time match performance

Guest5213 (U) tells you: and this from a player I've never even heard have

Guest5213 (U) tells you: apparently in 1865 Suhle was #5 and Hirschfeld #6 in the world

Xtell guest5213! Whoa

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: you know who was #1 in 1865?  Hint: not Steinitz

Guest5213 (U) tells you: and not Zukertort, who was too young

Guest5213 (U) tells you: and not Anderssen....

Xtell guest5213! Staunton

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: no, Staunton was no longer active

Xtell guest5213! Blackburn

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: the young Blackburn was #14

Guest5213 (U) tells you: I'll give you a clue -- it was one of Morphy's rivals

Xtell guest5213! Harrwitz

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: and Morphy's most famous win, probably, was against this person

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Harrwitz also wasn't active at that time

Xtell guest5213! Let me think

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: well, arguably his most famous win -- Morphy of course had many great wins, but I think this would rank as his best known

Xtell guest5213! Loewenthal

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: nope, he too was inactive it seems

Xtell guest5213! Paulsen

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: you guessed it

Guest5213 (U) tells you: Paulsen has an extremely impressive profile ... looks like he got much stronger after Morphy retired

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: he reached #1 in the world at various times between 1862 and 1878, nearly 15 years

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: #2 in the world was not Steinitz either ... it was the all-but-forgotten Ignatz Kolisch!

Xtell guest5213! Never heard of him

(Told guest5213)

Guest5213 (U) tells you: oh he was a great player, but also died young and didn't play a lot because of professional obligations as a banker

Xtell guest5213! Ok

(Told guest5213)

Xtell guest5213! Hew letís chat again soon

(Told guest5213, who has been idle for 5 minutes)?

Guest5213(U) tells you: ok

guest5213 is not logged in.